Frank’s Story
I used to get suboxone just to curb my withdrawal when I was using. I’d like to give you some origin to my mode of addiction. When I was a kid, I had so much extra energy and anxiety that never went away until I was fifteen. My parents had sent me to doctors and all they could do was give me ritalin. I found cannabis when I was 15 and it seemed to get rid of 75% of my anxiety/compulsivity. This is a reason that I support medical cannabis. I did abuse it just like any teenager would. I had not been properly informed of such things (mostly DARE’s fault), and didn’t know that I could use just a little bit to make my life so livable and enjoyable.
Anything psychiatrically related medicine-wise that could decrease my anxiety was either addictive or would shut down higher functions of my brain — I am a person that wants to use as much of his brain as possible. When it came to LSD and mushrooms, I used them by myself, first smaller doses then large, and was able to completely shatter my various neurosis. All these things are related to the brain not producing enough dopamine/endorphin/etc.. which balance a person out. Before it was illegal, many doctors cured thousands and thousands of people with schizophrenia so bad they couldn’t get out of their bed to wipe their ass — to the point of being able to hold jobs, with one specific drug. The drug that cured them – LSD. And for the rest of their lives. It’s all about learning the intricacies of your mind and how to control them. That’s why once in a blue moon, some poor fool will do a bunch of acid and go bonkers for a long time.. too much too fast. Anything not done in moderation has it’s downfalls.
Later on, tripping, I found cocaine (whilst tripping) and was like “Wow, I didn’t think I could enjoy something more than 20 hits of acid alone in one sitting.” So here I am, with my neuroses all but vanquished and I’m pushing the limits combining L and coke. It was great, but if you don’t go through a period of meditation afterwards and calm yourself in acid sessions, your brain stays so on that you find yourself trying to calm those far reaches of your brain that you’ve found and turned on that stayed on years after your last trip. This is about when I found heroin. Unlike alcohol, which just numbed my senses, I found heroin to be a very evolved alkaloid in that it could reach those far out places that I turned on, and calm them in just the right way. I had learned in the DARE program, that heroin and coke were two sides of the same coin, with equal addictive and harm inducing potential. Just that one was an upper, the other a downer. I had done coke on and off, sometimes in large amounts, sometimes making a gram last a month, never needing it when I ran out. So I think “wow, here is something that can feel so good, be so calm, and is as harmless as powder cocaine. Little did I know, it was far from my expectations, and the guys who got me into it knew that, but like they say, misery loves company. The shit had me in less than two weeks, and I went through the BS of “well I’ll just do it for now to work, and slowly get off of it.”
I used to buy suboxone to mediate my heroin addiction. Little did I know back then that you could buy dried poppy heads online. Or that eighty dollars of street heroin couldn’t touch a ten dollar cup of that oh so good poppy tea. I have been much higher and for longer, (and safer), on that tea than I ever have been using IV heroine. When I found this, I couldn’t believe the money I’d spent before on dope, and the damage I’d done to myself with needles. (Even though I always used fresh needles and never once shared.) Mother nature has an answer for just about everything. I had been busted with simple possession of heroine my 3rd time, and was out on bond when I found the poppies, and it made me so mad. Not just that I had been screwed by dirty system, but that I had helped fund it for so long. If a person can get unequally loaded on a simple cup of tea, why in God’s creation would they buy heroin off of the street and not only be a victim of the system, but actually contribute to it. My case was continued for about a year, why I will not say, and they let me off on probation as they often always do to white kids with simple possession charges. I couldn’t do the poppies anymore, they were loaded with morphine and codeine. The simple, cheap answer to my “leveling off” was no longer reachable, as I would be drug tested at least for 6 months. So the only things out there for me were suboxone and Kratom leaf. I find that suboxone will completely alleviate withdrawal symptoms. No insanity, no shitting, no puking, it was a miracle in of itself. You know, they make it from Thebaine from the poppy. Just like they make oxycontin, hydrocodone, and all the others from Thebaine, (most off the time). Even though I was “right/fixed”. There was still a little bit of imbalance, some sort of anxiety that the opiates had helped me with for so long. If you know someone with a problem with opiates, I would recommend Kratom to help them. As far as I can remember, unless I was using unbelievable amounts of dope, Kratom would get me right for a few days, until all the dope had exited my system. But even then it wasn’t so bad. Fifty times better than cold turkey most definitely. By the end of my run with poppy tea, I was taking the equivalent of 150-300 mg’s of morphine per day. And yes, that’s a heavy habit, much heavier than most people ever get with dope, (which is only like 10 to 25 percent pure anyways.) I went to a shrink and he prescribed me suboxone, 16 mg’s. Even with Kratom, it took me about a week until I was able to feel “normal”. But man, what a week that would’ve been if I hadn’t had anything, or even if I had just had Kratom. Suboxone has a little sword on the back of it in the shape of a Cross, there’s definately a correlation of saving people with bad habits.
Suboxone works like this.. Like all other opiates, it is full opiate receptor agonists. Meaning they fully stimulate the mu opiate receptor. Think of a key lock and a key. Most mainstream opiates have about all they teeth on the key to turn those receptors on. Buprenorphine, suboxone’s active, is a partial opiate receptor agonist, like it’s got just over half they keys that the other opiates have. If you know someone with a problem, and they’re taking suboxone, and they have, or you are afraid of them using again because suboxone is just a temporary fix, Suboxone + Kratom will do the job, and Kratom isn’t even in the ballpark in terms of addiction, as the others, even suboxone. But what it will do is go in there, and turn the rest of the lock. Believe me, it will keep that person from looking for dope as long as they’ve got that combo going on. When on suboxone, I have to make sure not to take too much Kratom because it will get me as high as dope would, and a person gets tired of that feeling after so many years. Like me, they just want to get right and balance out. Ever since my acid days, I have had like almost an ESP of sorts when it comes to certain things. I’m guessing that you’re not a virgin to drugs, that you’ve had experiences with pot, maybe coke and a little speed. But it’s alot different out here nowadays, isn’t it. It’s so different. A kid can go from a suburban high schooler with an interest in computers to a dope addict in just weeks. And not just heroin, prescription drugs are grabbing a lot of kids by the balls nowadays.
15% of all people are born with a lack of dopamine/endorphin production. This accounts for most attention deficit, and most of the drug problem. This also accounts for the most intelligent people you will ever meet. There are things in nature that people would not believe. Morphine, is a much higher evolved alkaloid than all three of our endogenous opiates in our brains. It’s like God makes a small lack of something by birth, and expects us to find a safe, righteous way of dealing with it. Some people go mad, others end up in jail and on the street. Some lucky ones, like me, find the answer in nature, and it’s an entire communication thing. Like if you commune with something, or imbibe something smarter than you are, you learn from it. If you abuse it, (or purify and bastardize it), then it will lead you through hell after level of hell.
Despite what our government tells us, there’s things in nature that are so much better for us then the things they would rather have us do. Alcohol directly kills 100,000 people per year, tobacco a staggering 5.4 million. Marijuana – zero. Sure, they like to find a joint in someone’s ash tray when they’ve died and blame weed, but they neglect to mention their .5 alcohol level, or the insane amount of benzos they found in their system. Cannabis can not be connected with any direct deaths. But hey, if you want to change your state of mind for a Friday afternoon chemically, they want you to go right to the liquor store or supermarket. Did you know that DMT, a neurotransmitter our brain makes, is a schedule I drug. Did you also know that each year, people that have incurable cancer and enough money to spend, go to south America to drink the shamans’ ayahuasca (dmt containing drink), and over 60 percent of them come home with no cancer. Their doctors claim they were misdiagnosed, or that they were an unbelievable “miracle case” and that the shaman’s drink had nothing to do with it. I’ve got personal stories about this very thing. Now yes, it is a very visionary alkaloid, but I’d rather go through a night of visions than have half of my life taken from cancer. I tell you, the problem goes a long way up, to the very top no doubt. Man, before we went to Afghanistan, over 70 percent of the US’s heroin came from the orient. 911 was a good excuse for allot of things. Did you know that over 91% of this country’s heroine comes from AFGHANISTAN. They bring the shit over on ships all the time. Just think, our taxes are funding this very operation. You know that’s why dope is so prevalent now, because they have so much of it coming in from the ships directly from Afghanistan, (that’s also why it’s so strong and killing so many people.) If you want to talk more on these terrible issues, I’d like to as well. I have been through years of addiction in the most intense ways, and after getting basically out of it, (I haven’t touched anything from the street in over a year). I’ve been looking for a way to help others deal with and find a way out of their addiction. Frank
28 comments
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August 21, 2012 at 11:51 am
Tony
Hey dad I love the article, I am a 28 yr old dad trying to get off the suboxone. This life has costed me soooo much and I have had enough, I really need a mentor right now. Please email me anytime tonysamra@msn.com
August 21, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Bill Ford
Tony – I can be a mentor in spirit. Thanks for reminding me of this journal. I published Franks piece quite a while ago because, I believe the blog needs to be open minded. Obviously, Frank took an approach that is shunned off my many treatment professionals. I have my ideas of what needs to be done and society isn’t ready. The first of which is to compassionately embrace addiction as a medical condition so we can deal with it. The success rate that follows many attempts to treat addiction professionally is low, so I published Frank’s honest story on beating his addiction. I have a daughter that is clean today and would know what Frank means.
Frank’s approach appears to have worked for him. Why would anyone put him down for that. I have a son who is not much younger than you. His struggles with addiction today, sadden me. You have offspring, so your sobriety and success in life is incredibly important. As for the cost and damage done, remember, every day is a new day. All best and God bless. Bill
October 5, 2012 at 10:53 am
Jesse
Wow! this sounds like someone i knew not too long ago! woah, Frank if its really you then im glad i showed you the kratom to help ease off synthetic drugs. I remember at first you said you felt nothing while taking Kratom but now that you had done your own research and probably upped the dose, you can see the magic it can do. (Wow this is crazy i can even recognize the way he speaks in his writings.) But anyway we miss you and we hope you find the right path for you in your journey to happiness and success. Hopefully someday are paths will cross again. Take care
Jesse.
May 30, 2015 at 3:28 pm
kimmy
So…friend needs help. 2 years on prescription and street opiates, now on suboxine, but only between getting his d.o.c. (H) . What type/brand in a head shop of kratom does he need to taper off subs (1mg or less a day, skipping days between copping ) .
or, can if break thru subs? Is a mix of the 2 euphoric At all? TIA
January 9, 2016 at 6:20 pm
artistobscure
Hi I’m sorry to bother you , but I really enjoyed your article and the things you’re saying have made sense to me for years. I’m currently on suboxone maintenance at a VERY low level, mostly due to financial constraints, after having recently kicked a pretty decent heroin habit (moderate to heavy addiction with a HUGE tolerance during my run– it became crazy fast). I’m doing pretty well on the sub, but I never feel 100% normal and I do experience nagging “breakthrough” symptoms toward the end of my day, aches and pains and general crappiness. This might partly be owing to the fact that I’m only about a month into recovery and I was never able to afford starting out at what might’ve been a proper stabilizing dose out of withdrawal, having been splitting strips up into multiple daily doses. I’m happy to maintain a lower dose, as I would like to mitigate the sub addiction in the long run, but it feels like either I never did “stabilize” or that I’m still “stabilizing” on the suboxone. Can you explain a bit about how the Kratom improves maintenance sub use? I’m very very interested and would like to know how you prepare it, perhaps dosing info, and whether or not it gives a “high” or noticeable effects or if it assists with cravings?
My second question is in regards to the poppy tea; I’m interested in that for a close friend who is older and in poor health, he’s a very long term pain management patient with a long history of medical pain management and with a completely wrecked spine (surgeries, car wrecks, injuries, & genetics). He was switched from his old meds awhile ago to methadone, and now is attempting to be clear of it completely for health reasons and because he believes it’s causing crippling depression. However, it’s been over a month since his last dose, and before then he’d been weaning slowly under medical care, and he’s really not getting better (he HAS used Kratom to help him through the process also); he’s been wavering in despair about going back to management of some kind and I really need to help him. Was wondering if poppy tea might work as an alternative thing? Is it legal to buy? And how should it be prepared? I’m sorry for the million questions. I know it’s a ton to reply to. If I could leave my email without it being public, I would!
Thank you!
January 9, 2016 at 6:22 pm
artistobscure
Hi I’m sorry to bother you , but I really enjoyed your article and the things you’re saying have made sense to me for years. I’m currently on suboxone maintenance at a VERY low level, mostly due to financial constraints, after having recently kicked a pretty decent heroin habit (moderate to heavy addiction with a HUGE tolerance during my run– it became crazy fast). I’m doing pretty well on the sub, but I never feel 100% normal and I do experience nagging “breakthrough” symptoms toward the end of my day, aches and pains and general crappiness. This might partly be owing to the fact that I’m only about a month into recovery and I was never able to afford starting out at what might’ve been a proper stabilizing dose out of withdrawal, having been splitting strips up into multiple daily doses. I’m happy to maintain a lower dose, as I would like to mitigate the sub addiction in the long run, but it feels like either I never did “stabilize” or that I’m still “stabilizing” on the suboxone. Can you explain a bit about how the Kratom improves maintenance sub use? I’m very very interested and would like to know how you prepare it, perhaps dosing info, and whether or not it gives a “high” or noticeable effects or if it assists with cravings?
January 10, 2016 at 1:52 pm
Bill Ford
Hi, I don’t do a lot of research on the nuances of other substances use for opiate withdrawal. I speak from careful observation of others. I was never addicted to opiates, I just started the blog to help addicts find information. If you find anything useful, feel welcome to contribute. I will say that you can never underestimate the usefulness of the basics in your recovery which includes many things that most folks do not exploit. These are exceptionally good organic and disciplined diets, supplements, plenty of water, integrative breathing ( google it ) and the great meditation that will be enable by this. All the suboxone, kratom, etc., that you use will always be compromised by a lack of the basics. All best to you. Bill
March 2, 2016 at 2:44 pm
pomegranate2014
Hi, Bill. I realize that this is an old post, but I wanted to thank you for the honesty. Many, many people are slaves to Big Pharma after trying to kick a dope habit; we trade the dirty streets for dirty doctors and dirty corporations that are out for a buck, not the health and well-being of the patient. I’m currently tapering off Suboxone; I started in 16 mg., and I’m on 10 mg. at present. I use kratom with it. I’ve been using kratom for years, and I never had the problems with it that were caused by dope or pills (or Suboxone, for that matter). Subs are great for preventing withdrawal, but staying in them for over a year, as I have, just makes you a slave to the doctor and the pharmacy.
All of the things you suggest – especially when integrated breathing and meditation – are crucial to a fully evolved recovery. Thank you again, so much, for posting Frank’s story.
Gentle Breezes,
Maureen
March 2, 2016 at 3:01 pm
Bill Ford
Thank you. I updated the post. It is quite remarkable. Good luck.
June 19, 2017 at 4:34 am
Laura
Hi Maureen,i just read an old post of urs on dadsonfire blog,&hoping against hope that u cud help me w/any info on how to kick my 20yr opioid addc.w/Kratom. I’ve been clean for the 10 yrs w/the aid of med.asst trmt. Specifically suboxone. Please if u cud help me w/any info on how to use Kratom to wean off subs,can i take it while on a smller dose?i wud b eternally grateful thank you.sincerely Laura M.
November 7, 2019 at 6:50 pm
Demeter's Daughter
Oh wow I’m so sorry I didn’t see this before. If you still need information, please email me at perseponespen2018@gmail.com and I will be happy to help you.
March 17, 2016 at 4:29 pm
JR
How did you use the kratom suboxone? Did you have to wait to take your subs for a fixed duration after the kratom? Could the kratom cause precipitated withdrawals from the bupo? I want to understand, I felt like you were writing my life story.
June 12, 2016 at 6:56 pm
Kimberly
Really enjoyed reading Frank’s story. What an asset he would be to recoveri, struggling addicts. I was captivated. Could listen to for hrs. Thanks for sharing your journey I sure do wish you the best. I am addict myself. For many many years. I’m currently on subs and kratom. Meditation, supplements, Also Shilajet and getting ready to try moringa oleifera. I’m trying to turn towards nature and only plan on subs for a short time (if I can find another way) Being an addict with a chronic pain condition….I just couldn’t see the light at the end of this tunnel. But today I have hope a little more knowledge and exp when it comes to nature. Anyways I just really wanted to say thanks.
August 22, 2016 at 8:10 pm
Erica Watkins
Can u share where to get the poppy heads to make tea? And does it matter what kind of kratom? I’ve been clean for 6 days but still have severe anxiety. Oh course the quacko psych prescribed clonopin, so that’s the last thing I need. How would u suggest taking it the kratom that is. I’m on about 6 mg of Subutex/ day. But I know, eventually trying to Get of of it it’ll just leaf back to the breath. I’m 41 and been fighting this battle for 20 yrs. Please help
June 19, 2017 at 3:47 am
Laura Mastrototoro
Im not sure if i posted my comment correctly. I dont see it..but i never am one 2 write on public or private forums.but i am just so in need of guidance rite now and wud b eternally grateful for any help or tips on how to kick an almost 20yr opiate addiction.i hav been clean w/the help of methadone and now suboxone for almost 10yrs and desperately want to b free of all dependence thru Kratom..but i hav no knowledge of how to use it,&if its safe 2 use while i wean myself of 16mg day of suboxone. Please anyone w/any experience, i wud b indebted to u forever. Thank u all and god bless.
July 20, 2017 at 11:11 pm
Drock
So i am currently trying to finish out a wheen of 8 months fron 16mg a day down ti 1 to 2 mg a day of suboxone. When i go to 0 the paws start to kick in when i get out of bed. Ive been using medical marijuana but after 15 years smoking its not helping much it seems. Aby ideas on how to make thia final step to 0mg a little easier on the energy and runny nose
July 21, 2017 at 11:48 am
Bill Ford
I don’t mean to sound simplistic, but here is my advise and it takes some guts. Keep weening and get yourself into a very physical regimen (work it hard) ….the benefits will be two fold. You’ll get to zero mg., and your body will transform
….do 2 ro 3 of theses, swim, weights, aerobic, run, hike, walk, bike, martial arts, yoga…1 to 1 1/2 hours daily in one or two sessions of activities. An ipod helps.
Add meditation into 3 – 4 evenings before bed. Go to the library and pick a guide video. Change your diet to a boatload of fresh food…and drink a lot of water. PAWS symptoms, etc… will eventually disappear.
All best – stay positive!
November 7, 2017 at 4:39 pm
Jeff
Frank,
Thanks for sharing your story I just happens to stumble across this page on a google search for kratom. I have been an addicted to opiates for 5 years now and that started with loratab and morphed all the way to IV heroin. Wow I’ve never said that out loud. Anyways you mentioned getting off of suboxon. Unfortunately I’ve been using 12mg per day for almost 2 years and I am ready to be done and free of this burden. Do you have any advice for getting off of sub’s. My “therapist” tell me to dose down over 6 months. Is there any truth in that or is the best way to go cold turkey using Kratom to ease the pain.
January 12, 2018 at 8:08 am
Ben
Hi, thanks for sharing your story, I would love to share mine sometime, I’m 36 been addicted since I was 19, started using iv when my dad shot me up at age 15, but right now I’m in a huge hurry, I’ve recently discovered that kratom while on subs can in fact be very beneficial, but I’m having trouble figuring out the best order to do them in (should I start with subs or kratom) and how much of either is recommended? I’m currently prescribed 16mg of sub per day and only take that amount on days that I work, but it’s still not enough for so many reasons and I think kratom is the answer I’ve been looking for.. Thank you in advance for any information you can share with me, take care – Ben
February 9, 2018 at 7:45 pm
Tausha Barker
I’m trying to figure out the same thing. I’m taking two 8 mg a day. I’ve heard about the krantom and I want to try it but I’m not sure how many I should take and there’s different strains like the green one in the white one and I’m not sure which one I should buy. I need something to help my desire cuz the 2 a day ain’t cutting it.
January 18, 2018 at 6:32 pm
Tausha Barker
So it is okay if I take Kratom with suboxone? Do I take the white or the green strain?
January 18, 2018 at 6:34 pm
Tausha Barker
And if I’m on 2 to 3, 8mg strips a day how many pills do I take?
February 9, 2018 at 7:43 pm
Tausha Barker
Can somebody help me out with my question?
February 10, 2018 at 6:13 am
Ben
I’m not sure about kratom pills I’ve only seen the powder but I can tell you that 1 heaping tea spoon
Is enough for me and I am a pretty big guy also I am on 16mg per day
February 10, 2018 at 12:15 am
Dadonfire
Dear Tasha, there is no right answer. Every cell and microbe in your body that depends on your choices simply wants life and to know that you are there for them. You are the captain of this ship called your body. I could try and answer your question but truth be told you can do this alone. I know. Depression, Sleeplessness, irratibility. You alone are all that is necessary and your constituent parts depend on that. Love thy self. In that love will flood over you. Resolutely and impeccably stand for your existence and it will all make sense. It is all just fine. You need nothing but you. You are so everything. Swim in that realty for the sake of each cell in your body and for your peers and those you care for. With love.
May 29, 2018 at 1:31 pm
Larry Ell
Very insightful dissertation, Frank. I personally do far, FAR better on Suboxone than with Kraton, who’s quality (and even effects) can be highly erratic, from batch-to-batch. But what I really wanted to offer is this: I (hope…) that I never get to the point of mixing Sub & Kratom. Because then I’d be dependant on TWO things at once. More $$ and double the obsession. Plus, for me, a month’s supply of (the extremely long-acting) Suboxone is a mere $10. For a month. Kratom, which requires frequent dosing, well, a month’s worth is like $300 — my insurance doesn’t cover Kratom, you see. The big picture is that chronic kratom users become underweight, trembly people with wildly unpredictable moods & behavior. Whereas people on Suboxone therapy (and don’t mis-use it) show remarkable improvement in psychosocial & financial standing. Sure, kratom — that is, *good* kratom (when it can be found), is almost a Godsend in certain opiate withdrawal situations. But Suboxone renders it pointless. I wouldn’t pollute Suboxone therapy with an erratic kratom adjunct.
June 10, 2018 at 11:00 am
Jb
I noted your comment on kratom leading to weight loss. I’m currently in a residential program after 20 years on different opiates. I have been using kratom and lost a lot of weight. What I’d like to get opinions on is. Does kratom it’s self make you loose weight by messing with your metabolism or something like. Or is it simply because kratom use decreases your appetite and you don’t eat as much. I’m thinking g and hoping it’s the Later. Thoughts???? Thanks. J.
June 11, 2018 at 10:06 am
Jennifer Hasenei
Opiate addict for ten years. Using Suboxone but it just doesn’t seem to fit the bill for the right buzz to get me through life. Experimenting with Kratom. Don’t think I’m faking right fse. Can you please help?