Addicts prescribed opiate replacement drugs can ask about generics rather than relying on proprietary Subutex/Suboxone marketed by Reckitt Benckiser. Suboxone is buprenorphine with added naloxone to block opioid receptors and helping to avoid abuse. Subutex is just buprenorphine. It is sold generically, since Reckitt Benckiser’s patent expired. BupPractice.com focuses on proper use. Recovery Helpdesk is also good website. Generics are available for $3.00 per 8mg pill or less. View therapeutic drug replacement for heroin addiction. Buprenorphine, used in replacement drug therapy and is still addictive but the best option for some. Treatment professionals call this replacement drug therapy, harm reduction. It stabilizes addicts and gets them off illegal street opiates. Buprenorphine is safe for those who can follow medical directions. The downside is that tapering off the drug is not easy, but the next step. The blog: suboxone talk zone is a “in the trenches” source of information.
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November 6, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Joe Herzanek
It seems to me that way to many have bought into the idea that some people just won’t/can’t quit. Sad. Switching from one drug to another. At least now they can be strung out on a legal drug. Harm reduction is a joke. I’m sure the pharmaceutical companies are happy though.
Joe
November 6, 2009 at 6:06 pm
dadonfire
Point accepted. However, what is an affordable alternative? I would really like to know. I have watched a lot of young opiate addicts trip over recovery and rehab for years…over and over again. My own son; one of them. Even residential rehab wasn’t the answer to many. Initially, the intense withdrawals stops most of them from continuing…so comes replacement drug therapy. The big Pharmas do profit off it. That’s another issue. If an addict accepts suboxone or methadone for that matter without trying to use street opiates, they can regain much of what they lost physically and mentally and when stable, they can wean off of either of these. The problem with weaning off of suboxone is the issue of micro-dosing. Its a powerful drug. 1 mg is equal to 20-30 mgs of methadone. Micro doses and time release implants are available in Europe just for that purpose; not here yet. Methadone is easier to wean off in that respect. the problems is timing. Being a craving addict doesn’t go away that soon enough….and then there is Methamphetamine of which physical and mental restoration is even more questionable. I think residential rehab is a better answer for that.
December 13, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Keith
Their not strung out. There is a difference between addiction and dependence. If you do it right, you can work on your sick addict side while on this drug and free of cravings. People are ignorant and don’t think. Are you an addict, addicted or have been addicted to opiates or opioids? If not, shut up!
December 13, 2009 at 8:48 pm
dadonfire
We’re all listening for solutions…
March 5, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Eric
I was on opiates for 15 years without every seeing a way out and for two weeks now I’ve been taking suboxone and I finally have hope that I will get my freedom and my life back. I tried to quit countless times and even when I was clean, I was miserable. If I can regain so much of what I was 2 decades ago in 2 weeks I can only imagine what my life will be like in a year. Suboxone gives people their life back. As far as it being addictive, who cares! It does not get you high. Period. I don’t care if the pharmaceutical companies are getting filthy rich. Not my concern. It is worth any amount of money to have my life, my family, and my freedom back. Think before you make some narrow minded comment. It might persuade someone to live the rest of their life in hell.
-Eric
March 5, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Bill Ford
Appreciate your civil comment. I won’t put you down for how you decide to stay clean Eric. I hope it leads to chemical free sobriety before too much time passes. Eventually abstinence does lead to the best recovery, coffee grounds, cigarette butts and all. I commend you for getting off street drugs. I hope you can use the subs as a short bridge. I think anybody will tell you that living a life dependent on replacement drugs is tough on the organs and 15 years already on H, is a lot. like any drug, the longer you stay on suboxone the harder it is to get off of it. Months turn into more years in the blink of an eye. Check out suboxone talk zone for more detailed information on the subject. Link – http://suboxonetalkzone.com/ Good luck.
March 14, 2012 at 5:43 am
carol mays
eric i was on very high doses of opiates as well living on the streets with no hope of getting clean i finally found help with suboxone therapy and have a wounderful life now i have a job and have been productive for 4 years now i have my life back people nomatter how we try to explain how this treatment has changed our lives will never get it good luck carol
April 15, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Chris Kringle
Do you have a reference (preferably a peer reviewed medical journal) that gives evidence that long-term treatment with buprenorphine or methadone is “tough on the organs”? I am highly skeptical of your claim and, until such evidence is forthcoming, I suggest that others don’t make decisions based on this potential hearsay.
Of course, I admit that you may have evidence for your claims and I will reserve absolute judgment until your reply.
April 15, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Eric
OK Here’s the deal with me and my progress. Over 2 months clean now. My family is happy and my Mom doesn’t stay up all night wondering if I’m going to be found dead in a gutter somewhere. I feel GREAT! All my liver enzyme tests are perfectly normal. My father and I work in our shop making all kinds of wood working projects. I guess there might be a possibility that the buprinorphine is doing minor damage but over the last 15 years I treated my body like a fucking trash can so this in comparison is just fine with me. Bottom line is I have found FREEDOM, HAPPINESS, LOVE for myself and others, and a SENSE OF PEACE in my life that I hadn’t known in 15 or so years. All of this is due to Suboxone and therapy. So to all the haters out there, maybe you should try to find a little more happiness in your life instead of knocking Suboxone and us who take it. Have a great day, -Eric
July 22, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Keanna
Not to burst anyone’s bubble but I was on suboxone for three years and just got worse and worse the longer I was on it , it messes with your brain and if you ever heard of PAWS , post accute withdrawal syndrome , it’s a deep depression you have to deal with and I have heard it takes some people over a year to be able to live again . I don’t care what anyone tells me , you should not be on it for long term or at high doses like I was . I have read a lot of stuff about suboxone , yes some people have good stories but I have only seen bad when it comes time to come off it. Hey , maybe the ones that are dealing with the depression and anxiety and horrible withdrawals are all wrong , You can hope right but I’m one of them at three weeks off it and in bad shape .
April 15, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Chris Kringle
You are mostly incorrect. For some, “harm reduction” may be a joke but I would say for the majority it is very real. I have spoken with quite possibly close to 100 people whose lives have been changed for the better by switching to Suboxone (or even methadone). If it weren’t for these drugs they’d still be jobless or just scraping by in order to buy illegal drugs (many committing crimes in order to obtain drugs whose prices have been jacked up because of prohibition itself; ironic, eh?). I mean, it’s not like we’ve ever been taught a lesson about outright prohibition of a popular drug causing more harm than good… Oh wait! (if you’re not good with history, here’s a hint: amendments 18 and 21 to the U.S. Constitution).
Speaking of which, it’s interesting that we needed a constitutional amendment for that back then when now all we need are bureaucratic decrees (see analog laws). Alcohol is just as bad (I would say it’s worse) than any other drug yet, because of ingrained cultural norms, we do the hypocritical thing and keep it around while getting rid of everything else. Because it’s okay and even “hip” to drink (especially among the rich, i.e. the “ruling class”) while drug use is generally a “poor” phenomenon. And I’m usually the one standing up for the rich! But, I digress…
And personally, I can attest to the fact that buprenorphine is MUCH easier to quit than methadone or others like oxycodone or hydrocodone. Most of the people that say it’s harder are not weaning themselves off slow enough or have no desire to stop taking it (which for some people is the best idea because there are some that are simply mentally incapable of ever being “clean” without a “harm reducing” substitute.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
P.S. I have many complaints about how pharmaceutical companies push their products and take advantage of people through patents and things like that but the existence and production of drugs such as buprenorphine and methadone is not something I like to chastise pharm companies about.
April 30, 2012 at 8:24 am
joshiegntn
I have grown so incredibly tired of this point of view. If you are an ex-addict and had the ability to go through withdrawal for the 3 months it generally takes for a true, serious, long-term opiate addict to become functional again WITHOUT working or taking care of kids or any other responsibilities whatsoever, that’s great for you. Some of us aren’t able to drop our responsibilities for the period of time it usually takes to be functional again. I went for three months+ in total withdrawal and was still as sick the 90th day as I was the day I started cold turkey withdrawal, so I know how long it takes. And if you have never been an addict, you are probably a Republican who likes to give your opinion which isn’t based upon any true-life personal experience.
August 11, 2012 at 6:50 pm
A.FELLOW.ADDICT
HOW DARE YOU! I DON’T EVEN HAVE TO ASK IF YOUR AN ADDICT OR HAS A LOVE ONE THAT’S AN ADDICT JUST BY YOUR COMMENT. US ADDICTS OR PEOPLE WITH LOVED ONES WHO SUFFER FROM ADDICTION, WE AS A WHOLE, WOULD NEVER WISH THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION (LET ALONE OPIATE ADDICTION) WE WOULDN’T WISH IT ON OUR WORST ENEMIES! THIS IS A LIFE CHANGING , EVERY DAY BATTLE, SELF PAINFUL, PHYSICAL AND PSYCH. *****DISEASE*****, THAT WE ADDICTS HAVE TO FIGHT FOR OUR LIVES EVERY DAY, AND YOU SIRE, HAVE NO GOD DAMN IDEA OR NEVER WILL, OF WHAT THIS IS LIKE. ITS IGNORANT PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SAY A STATEMENT LIKE THAT IN FRONT OF THEIR ADDICTED CHILD, THAT MAKE THEM RUN OUT OF THE ROOM AND RELAPSE OR GOD FORBID TAKE ENOUGH TO OVERDOSE TO KILL THE PAIN OF WHAT THEY JUST HEAD. YOU GIVE ADDICTS NO HOPE, YOU SHOULDN’T BE COMMENTING ON A RECOVERY/ ADDICTION MEDICINE CONVERSATION. INSTEAD YOU SHOULD SIT BACK AND SAY “HOW RESILIENT THESE PEOPLE ARE AND HOW I WISH I COULD HAVE AS MUCH STRENGTH AND WILLPOWER AS “US ADDICTS HAVE”. I’M GOING TO STOP BECAUSE I CAN GO ON ALL NIGHT LONG. I DO NOT LIKE YOUR COMMENTS, BUT EVEN WITH THAT, I HOPE YOU NEVER EVER EVER HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE THINGS THAT SOME OF US HUMAN BEING CHEMICALLY DEPENDENT ADDICTS HAVE GONE THROUGH..(SUCH A SITUATION INVOLVING MY SON WHICH WAS AN OPIATE ADDICT AND I WILL NOT GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT HIS LIFE FIGHTING BATTLE HE FOUGHT FOR 4 YEARS, OUT OF RESPECT FOR HIM)ITS AN UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WHEN A PERSON SUCH AS MYSELF (BEING A 42 YEAR OLD MAN) WAKES UP IN THE MORNING AND GOES TO GET HIS ONLY CHILD, HIS ONLY SON, HE GOES TO WAKE HIM UP FOR HIS FIRST DAY OF COLLEGE ( WHICH HE HAD GOTTEN A FULL SCHOLARSHIP TO) AND AS I WALKED INTO THE ROOM I FOUND MY 18 YEAR OLD CHILD HUNCHED OVER ON HIS DESK. FIGURING HE FELL ASLEEP AGAIN CAUSE OF BEING UP LATE. I GRABBED HIS SHOULDER AND SAID C’MON BUDDY, TODAYS A NEW DAY, LETS START OFF ON A GOOD FOOT HAH? WHAT DO YOU SAY JOHN? I GET NO RESPONSE, IN A SPLIT SECOND I NOTICED MY HAND THAT I HAD LAYED ON HIS SHOULDER, WAS COLD. I SAID TO MYSELF WHY IS THIS?!!! I SHOUT HIS NAME, I TURN HIM AROUND AND I FIND MY BABY, MY SEED, MY ONLY SON, HUNCHED SO FAR OVER THAT HIS CHIN IS ALMOST TOUCHING HIS GROIN AREA. I FIND HIM BLUE! COLD! NO RESPONSE! HIS HEAD SEVERELY BENT FORWARD. MY SON HAS USED A COMBINATION OF HEROIN( FROM NEWARK NJ WHERE HE WENT TO BY SINCE IF ANYONE TRULY KNOWS ABOUT THIS, NEWARK NJ HAS THE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT MOST POTENT HEROIN IN THE WHOLE USA!)YEAH SO LETS CONTINUE NOW THAT I’M PAST THE THOUGHT OF THAT DEVIL JUNK HEROIN POWDER FORM OF SATAN! THE NIGHT BEFORE MY SON USED A COMBINATION OF HIS N.J DOPE, HIS OPANA’S, A FEW ROXYS, AND HIS PROMETHAZINE/VICODIN SYRUP. MY BABY BOY USED TO INTRAVENOUSLY INJECT ABOUT 2, OR 2.5 OF THE MEDICATION OXYCONTIN WHEN IT WAS AROUND, HE WOULD INJECT ABOUT TWO OR 2.5 80MG OF THOSE AND HE WOULD LIVE. WELL THIS NIGHT HE CHOSE FOR WHAT REASON ONLY GOD KNOWS TO COCKTAIL HIS NARCOTICS AND MIX A FEW STAMPS OF DOPE WITH ONE OR TWO OXYMORPHONE PILLS, YEAH DILAUDID!!!! INJECTED HIMSELF 4 TIMES IN A THREE HOUR PERIOD WHICH WASN’T FAR FROM HIS USUAL, BUT WHAT WAS DIFFERENT WAS THE 4TH SYRINGES I FOUND AND MY INFO COMES FROM THE TOXICOLOGY INVESTIGATION ON WHAT THE SYRINGES CONTAINED OR STILL CONTAINED AND NARCOTICS FOUND ON SCENE. ANYWAYS THE FOURTH NEEDLE WAS NOT SOMETHING MY BABY BOY WOULD DO , FOR SOME REASON HE FELT HE COULD DO IT THAT NIGHT. WHY? DONT KNOW! MAYBE HE WAS SAD SCARED, HURT FROM DESTROYING EVERYTHING HE LOVED!, WHICHEVER IT WAS, IT WAS ENOUGH TO UNCAP HIS SYRINGE AND FIND A VEIN.,. AFTER HE TIED OFF AND STUCK THAT PIN OF DEATH INTO HIS ARM (THE SYRINGE), HE DIED. MY SON DIES APPROX 1 AND A HALF SECONDS AFTER HE STARTED TO PUSH THE PLUNGER DOWN TO RELEASE HIS DRUGS, THERE WAS STILL 2/3 OF THE MIXTURE OF OPIATES LEFT IN THE SYRINGE, THE SYRINGE WAS STILL IN MY BABIES ARM, HE DIES INSTANTLY OFF OF 1/3RD OF WHAT HE WAS PLANNING TO TAKE. I HAD TO FIND MY DEARLY BELOVED SON. MAY HE REST IN PEACE. I HAD TO FIND HIM STONE COLD BLUE FACED WITH A SYRINGE IN HIS ARM. I HOPE NONE OF YOU NON ADDICTS EVER HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CASE LIKE THAT AND THEN TRY TO GO ON LIVING AFTER SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU! AND THAT’S WHY I USE MY MOST TRUTHFUL AND HEART FELT “LINE” WHEN I SAY STUFF TO PEOPLE. “I WOULD NEVER WISH THIS DISEASE EVEN ON MY WORST ENEMY” THAT’S WHAT I SAY BECAUSE ITS THAT HORRIBLE OF A THING FOR US AS A COMMUNITY OF ADDICTS AND FAMILIES WILL EVER COME ACROSS IN LIFE. SO IGNORANT JOE. I HOPE I GOT THROUGH TO YOU!
***** MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN SOME IGNORANT LIBERAL YUPPIE***
~ TO ALL OF YOU GUYS AND GIRLS ,FAMILY AND FRIENDS, MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL OF YOU. TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE LOST A LOVED ONE FROM THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION, MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU. FOR ALL THOSE WHO STILL SUFFER FROM THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION. MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU. YOU WILL DO IT, YOU WILL FIND THE STRENGTH AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THINK ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, SPEND AS MUCH TIME WITH THEM AS YOU CAN , EVEN IF UR ASHAMED OF SEEING THEM WHEN YOUR HIGH, PLEASE GO SEE THEM BECAUSE WE KNOW SOMETHING THAT THEY DON’T, AND ITS THAT IF FOR ANY REASON ITS TIME FOR US TO GO TO THE BIG HOME UPSTAIRS AND GOD CALLS US HOME, WHILE BEING AN ADDICT IT CAN HAPPEN AT ANY TIME OF DAY NIGHT. THEY DON’T.
GOD BLESS ALL, AND DO WHATEVER TREATMENT WORKS FOR YOU BECAUSE THE BOTTOM LINE IS TREATMENT IS TREATMENT!
August 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Bill
No comment on your opposition to Joe’s comment, but your plea is poignantly powerful and worth the read. Heartfelt is the loss of a child. Many who read this blog, know the feeling or fear it. What is not said is what you know about the detail in the mind of an addict that those in the treatment industry need to know. Keep writing.
November 6, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Barbara
I think this is good news. I am curious if Joe from the above comment has overcome heroin addiction. Suboxone DOES help addicts get off opiates. It may be addicting but it does NOT get you high, it does not ruin your life, it does not land you in jail or the grave. Therefore, its somewhat of a miracle drug. My insurance company covered it and we got it at a reasonable cost. I am all for it.
November 6, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Barbara
This is a really important discussion. I’m glad you brought it up. Suboxone and methadone are both controversial. But then again, so is rehab. I have known numerous families who have spent thousands of dollars – sometimes their child’s college fund – for one rehab after another and no lasting results. As parents we would do just about anything to help our children overcome their addiction problems, but in reality there’s not much we can do. I think Suboxone is one option, but my son ended up selling his doses to pay for heroin. Bottom line is they have to want to stop. Jail seems to be working for my son, he’s got 76 days clean now….the fear is when he gets out. There is NO easy answer.
November 30, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Cherri T.
You are so right Barbara, they have to want to quit really bad or nothing will help. My son has been a drug addict for years. He finally got off cocaine on his own but went on to pills. 2 years ago he started on Subs and has been clean the whole time. His views and outlook on life has changed over these 2 years for the better. He always said if he could get out far enough from drug use he could make it and so far he has. It has been difficult as he is bipolar also. He is now addicted to Subs of course but it is so much more managable and livable then being an all out drug addict. I try to view it as anyone who is on a certain medication and needs it to live, for instance Diabetics. He still had cravings for most of the first year but that is now rare. Anyone who has a loved one who is an addict knows your pain and your son’s pain. Please dont give up, ask your son to try again with Suboxone, to me it really has been a miracle.
November 6, 2009 at 6:58 pm
dadonfire
As one recent story contributor put it …”it is love and love alone that will help you and your family thru this nightmare. Tough love mostly”…I would add everything the experts can offer, sheer human will and a more compassionate world of recovery. Some 22 million drug addicts and alcoholics can’t be wrong. No easy answers is right. Someone I love dearly who fought opiate addiction for a decade and a half views jail as a rescue. I still want to see drug policy reform as part of a growing nation of compassion, acceptance and recovery.
November 6, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Joe
Wow, seems like a bit of a hornets’ nest. I spent sixteen years lost in addiction to alcohol and drugs. Heroin and opiate pain meds were some of my favorites. I now have a few decades of total abstinence. Say what you will, the truth is that people, LOTS OF PEOPLE, millions have quit all alcohol and drug use. Methadone and suboxone users are users. They have just switched to legal dope. They have convinced you that they are unique and they just can’t quit. Which is a bunch of crap from a bunch of cry babies.
Regards, Joe
January 27, 2011 at 5:26 pm
kevin gulley
you must be crazy! suboxin is a miracle drug.. so for the addict out there,if suboxin works for you? then dont let anybody say your sub n for another drug. bull crap! trust me us junkies would not be taking suboxin. it does not get you high..period! you wouldnt tell a heart patient to stop taking his or hers morning heart pill, would you? no you wouldnt.. so all you addicts out there that have found the miricle pill suboxin,stay on the wagon and live life to the fullest… get you high..yea right.. that guy dont know squat about the epidemic going on among our youth these days.. live life to the fullest! kevin.
November 30, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Cherri T.
No, your right he doesnt know squat. He’s trying to paint everyone with his own paintbrush!
April 15, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Chris Kringle
Everyone must have the exact same brain as you, right? Mental phenomena are just like physical phenomena. Some people are capable of going to the gym and becoming 300 pound muscle-bound monsters while some can’t gain a pound even if they wanted to. It is harder for some than it is for others. It was obviously easier for you than it is for many to choose abstinence. Some simply have more will-power. I think we often make the mistake of placing mental phenomena away from the physical when, in reality, they are essentially the same. People can’t help the way their brains are constructed and calling people cry-babies because they can’t quit is no different from calling a cripple a cry-baby because he/she can’t walk. It’s just that those with lower-than-average logical reasoning capabilities are unable to see that the brain is only a collection of matter whose construction is determined by a combination of DNA and environmental factors just like the spinal cord and the muscles and nerves in the limbs. The extent to which someone can change their brain is bound within those limits just like every other part of the body.
If you think otherwise, then explain the difference to me without using logical fallacies. You can try but it won’t work.
What if people went around making fun of and insulting you because you apparently don’t understand the above comments.
Also, I am aware of the argument that “tough love” and things like that can be helpful for some and that “I can’t help the way my brain is constructed” is not an argument for committing crimes against others with impunity. I agree. But that doesn’t change the fact that the information contained in my first paragraph is true to the extent that ANYTHING can be said to be “true”.
April 15, 2012 at 10:00 pm
Bill
Write a constructive update on generic suboxone, its availability, costs, etc…and other alternatives to street drugs. Submit in submissions. Talk about how an opiate addict can eventually have freedom from addiction. I think we agree there are millions of opiate addicts that feel trapped. They and their families need to know how others find success.
November 7, 2009 at 8:33 am
Bob
I have to agree with Joe, millions of folks have recovered, myself included. Barbara, I also see the value of suboxone as a detox protocol — it’s a safe and effective bridge from active opiate use to chemical abstinence. But too many times, the addict and their caregivers get stuck on that bridge. Reducing the damage and consequences of active addiction through harm reduction is an intoxicating notion for weary addicts and their families. Often i have seen cases where active opiate addicts on the road to ruin will “behave themselves” once they start on suboxone. Harm reduction in that sense is effective, insofar as it goes. Many treatment providers LOVE this drug because it makes disruptive patients act compliant. But make no mistake, harm reduction + compliance does NOT equal sobriety. These folks are NOT sober… the pupils are pinned, they have a flat personal affect, and reaction times are off by at least a beat or two. What’s worse, they have switched from an unacceptable chemical dependence to a more socially acceptable drug dependence, and deep down, they know that. This stunts their self-esteem and blocks them from the freedom they are seeking. Sobriety is an onerous, difficult deal and involves a commitment to change and usually, some level of personal and physical discomfort. The notion that you can make lasting and profound personal change without experiencing any personal discomfort or sacrifice whatsoever… that is what the drug companies and their representatives are selling. It’s an intriguing, intoxicating notion, isn’t it? Suboxone does get us on the road to recovery, but don’t confuse the the on-ramp with the destination. The real work begins when patients and their doctors summon the courage to go from “less” chemicals to no chemicals.
November 7, 2009 at 10:36 am
Joe
I may have been a bit harsh in my last comment. I tend to do that at times. Using suboxone for a brief period during detox can be helpful. Beyond that and the person has simply decided to use the drug rather than find another coping skill. Talk therapy is the key ingredient in long term total abstinence. 12 Step programs are the best place to turn for this long term help.
Joe
November 7, 2009 at 10:49 am
Barbara
Joe, Thanks for your comments….I mean that sincerely. For me, what former addicts have to say on these subjects is very valuable because you are the only ones who actually know, first hand, what its like. The rest of us are striving to understand and willing to do just about anything we can to help our loved one, but what we learn over and over is that the addict has to be ready, they have to do it themselves. I hear that 12 Step is the way to go and am praying that my 18 y.o. will open his mind to it when he gets in rehab. You give me hope that anyone can do it – when they are ready. A lot of us just pray that our loved ones are ready sooner than later because we feel helpless as we watch them waste precious years. Thanks again.
November 7, 2009 at 11:13 am
Joe
Thank you for your kind words Barbara. I didn’t start this yesterday for any other reason than it just makes me mad that SOME, not all, rehab places want to just put people on another drug to FIX their current drug problem. I also didn’t start this to sell books but having said that I am an author and have written a very helpful book on this topic. If you are interested in looking at it just google my name from the first comment.
Regards, Joe
November 10, 2009 at 4:19 am
Jay
I was really excited reading the posts. Especially from Bob…one of the best I’ve read in a long time. Gotta admit though I lost that excitement when I clicked on a suboxone link that brought me to a site sponsored by Reckitt.
November 10, 2009 at 10:22 am
dadonfire
Jay – I encourage you to stay linked with this site. Appreciate your comments alot. We don’t support Reckitt’s recent actions, as their interest is to sustain profit from a drug (suboxone) that was developed to bridge addiction to recovery and has an expired patent. I say that because they are fighting generic status. We also do not typically support the long term use of drug replacement therapy. Both Suboxone and Methadone are difficult enough for an addict to manage initially. Alot to say about that later. These drugs usefulness is the bridge they provide to an ultimate full and sober recovery. I have to defer to Joe’s comments above for a good description of what they really are in alot of cases. Legal replacement drugs have their “place”. If it stops an addict on a dangerous steep downhill slope, or pulls him or her out of an abyss; its difficult for addiction doctors in the therapy community to discount their use.
November 10, 2009 at 10:43 am
Joe
Great follow-up dad. Nothing wrong with a little help to get started in recovery. Then the real answer can begin, which in my opinion is talk therapy. This applies to more than substance dependent people. Almost anyone can benefit from a mentor of some kind.
November 16, 2009 at 9:01 am
Cathie
WOW! WOW! WOW! Give a Hi FIVE to Joe! Now there’s a man who has been there and back and is a testimonial to what can be done without any “crutch” put out there by the pharmacies. I am a mom of a meth user who is now in recovery for five months, and it took a few tries from 18 to 30….READ JOE”S BOOK! I found it over a year ago when I had lost hope…his book not only gave me hope, it taught me so much about the whole story of addiction from ALL sides… forget about replacement drugs….Joe like millions of others found the answer….so can your loved ones, if they really, really want to quit.
November 16, 2009 at 10:50 am
dadonfire
A believer in 12 step AA, I can say for myself, I own my addiction and don’t take sobriety for granted. That’s what keeps me sober today. I also know and accept that some will always put 12 step work down for little reason, other than it doesn’t fit their mold. I have always said there are many ways to skin a cat. As a credible activist for all of you that positively contribute to the world of recovery, I will commend you for your efforts just as I will those who deal with addicts in different, sometimes controversially means. Of course, I will read Joe’s book., because I support him and now hearing it from you, convinces me even more to purchase this. Greatly appreciate your work and contribution.
November 25, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Frank
You people need to lay off this hatred. I, as a long time addict, learned in therapy that 15% of all people are born with a “wiring up” if you will, of their brains not producing enough dopamine, and/or endorphins. These are the children who cannot pay attention in school, as well as today’s and tomorrow’s junkies. If your brain is in need of dopamine, you can’t just say “God, Jesus, I love you and all, but could you please fix my brain so that I won’t search for ways to feel better or different?” I’ve tried for years, it doesn’t work. That’s why I’ve been on suboxone. I think it’s great that we can get an alternative to the expensive brand. By the way, these 15% of people born differently, are always much smarter in study after study, and test after test, than the rest of you who think that stuff like American Idol is great, and that you can just sit there with your thumbs up your bums, smile, and feel swell. We “others” as you would call us, are always searching for intellectual, spiritual, and chemical highs, (the latter being sometimes the worst, but you live and learn). You may also want to know that every chemical that our brains use (you know the stuff that makes you wake, sleep, feel and love), has a more evolved version of itself in nature. Meaning, when you have nature’s more evolved key fitting into the locks in your brain, you get smarter, and it lasts for the rest of your life. Too bad that just us 15% have been the ones to evolve, as well as suffer because of our need of intellectual, spiritual, and chemical evolution. Get a day job and lay off of us. And yes, some people get into this stuff just because they wanna be “bad” or “cool”, or just to get high. But in case of opiate addiction, they’ve been though more hell and physical evolution than you could ever dream of going through. And the hell, I wouldn’t wish on anyone. So lay off of them too.
Frank, age 30. Drug user since 15
Health: excellent IQ: 210
November 25, 2009 at 2:37 pm
dadonfire
I respect your views as well as those of whom I think you are referring too. This is the point. To see all sides. Actually, Frank, addicts are really the main point. Recovery is also a key concern. From the stand point of Dadonfire, I do not want to discount viewpoints. I understand your experience to a degree as I have watched young people suffer from the scourge of heroin addiction. I am always learning something new about this world. The Dadonfire site strives to accept all views and then stay out of the way. Your perspective is a first on this post – THANKS
April 15, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Chris Kringle
Frank, I think we are in similar situations. I didn’t know about the intelligence link (I am skeptical of this) but, at least in my case, that seems to fit. Ugh, I had to force myself to type that last line because it sounds so arrogant. But, I have to be honest here in order to get this point across.
My opiate addiction has almost never been about “getting high”. For example, I’ve noticed that, when others take all their pills at once to get as high as possible, I would save mine and just take them over time. Indeed, my “drug of choice” was methadone and preferred it over everything else (because it lasts all day and doesn’t make you “super-high” like heroin). It just felt like something was missing from me. Even when I didn’t get the stereotypical high I was fulfilled. I never felt right until I took an opiate for the first time. I do want to stop taking Suboxone and I am on that path but I often wonder if I will just go right back to not feeling like myself just like the 20 years I lived before trying an opiate.
I guess I will eventually find out…
November 25, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Barbara
Frank,
I have been learning more about this as my son progresses in his recovery…I wrote a post on why I believe addiction is a disease and like other diseases (diabetes, cancer, etc.) its more than a just a decision to quit. I think that’s the first step, actually wanting to…but if it were that simple why wouldn’t more people be successful. I am not knocking or surrounding any method, I admit I know NOTHING for sure, I am just trying to understand. Personally, my compassion goes to the addict that has been through 12 Steps with sincerity and is still suffering the consequences of heroin use because the steps did not work for them. Again, I am not knocking the 12 Steps, I’m just saying that when you go to a meeting and hear people telling their success stories – for every one of them there is someone NOT IN THE ROOM that has tried and failed over and over.
It if really were a matter of choice I know my older “son” would not be in jail again. He’s been fighting heroin for 7 years and he’s only 22. My younger son is 18 and in rehab with 95 days clean (thanks to jail, or I doubt he would have made it this far).
I am just a mother who loves her son(s) and hates heroin. Frank, do you still use? I have a friend who maintains his life and still uses, I am just curious. Please email if you want I would like to ask you some questions.
Thanks, Dad on Fire, for your wonderful site.
December 4, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Bill Webb
Addiction is addiction. Recovery is recovery. As simplistic as that sounds, there are a lot of people who just don’t get it. As long as I am addicted to a drug, I am not in recovery. I am not free to live my life unencumbered. The neural pathways remain open. I am subject to relapse instantly the first time I can’t get the Suboxone, Methadone, Heroin or whatever that I’m on for maintenance. My addiction is still active, I’m just not getting high. Not only that, I’m still thinking like an addict…shaping my life around a drug. I am not getting the support I would be getting, the assistance in clearing up my thinking, the fellowship and example that show me how to live a healthy life again. I may be functioning in the Earth People’s world, but there is no way I’m living in it. Maintenance treatment is a scam. All of it. It’s just running in place, waiting to slip. Suboxone is invaluable as a tool for relatively painless detox, but total abstinence must be the goal.
April 15, 2012 at 9:25 pm
Chris Kringle
For some, total abstinence might actually be worse than maintenance. Why? Because some will almost certainly relapse over and over again. With maintenance at least those people will be able to lead a normal life while they are addicts. Realism is almost certainly better than faith in the irrational and persisting in a belief despite all of the evidence to the contrary (e.g. “I can abstain if I just try harder” or “God will heal my cancer if I just pray instead of going to the hospital”)
December 4, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Joe
Good post Bill. Maybe Frank will read it. I don’t know though, he’s pretty smart and you just keep it simple. I think Frank likes complicated [-; Is it just me or does Frank sound like a miserable guy?
December 8, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Monica
I have been prescribed suboxone for the past 2 years now. Recently my doctor told me about the generic kind. I’ve asked around to all the pharmacies in my area (Tucson) and no one can seem to tell me anything about it. To them, the generic does not exist. I am paying 300 dollars a bottle that is only going to last me a month. Can someone please tell me any knowledge they have regarding this? Thank you in advance for any insight anyone has.
March 2, 2010 at 3:46 am
Jerry
Monica, I think your doctor made a mistake. Mine did the same thing. In December she told me generic suboxone came out, I called all over the place, no one heard this except one pharmacy. I waited till the current script I was on ran out then called the other pharmacy again to confirm gen subox. they confirm.. when I get there to fill script the other pharmacist says, “We don’t have this, we have generic Subutex not Suboxone.”
April 15, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Chris Kringle
Yes, I am inclined to believe that this article mistook some neat buprenorphine formulation for the buprenorphine/nalaxone combo, Suboxone.
December 8, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Monica
And why doesn’t Access Insurance cover it?
December 8, 2009 at 9:37 pm
dadonfire
You must be referring to Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS) – Arizona’s Medicaid agency. I have a family member receiving it through C.O.P.E. Behavioral Services, however AHCCCS doesn’t pay for it. Another program covers the cost. A contact @ COPE is Angie @ email” asantamaria@copebhs.com. Another point of contact for information on the generic status of suboxone is http://suboxonetalkzone.com/?tag=generic-suboxone. All I have seen written thus far are reports of the drug being sold by Walgreen’s in the central U.S., Ohio, Wisconson,…Give it some time to get here and keep checking.
December 18, 2009 at 12:01 am
Monica
thank you for pointing me in the right direction! i will be sure to get in contact with her asap. happy holidays!
February 4, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Catherine
I think Suboxone is great especially for the Chronic Pain patient who is Chemically Dependent. I was at a women’s rehabilitation center a few weeks ago and one of the counselors there told me 40% of the women she see’s coming out of the Department of Corrections identify as Chronic Pain Patients. The path is very similar to all of them. They become dependent/addicted to Chronic Pain Meds, then they get turned away from their primary care physicians and pain medicine doctors after they start to abuse the narcotics, which in desperation they create a criminal class. The sad part is they don’t identify as addicts so it is harder for them to recover – but Suboxone is a godsend for this particular class of addict/patient.
February 4, 2010 at 8:30 pm
dadonfire
Appreciate your input. Some have a tough time advocating longterm Sub treatment; but you make some good points about longer term use for cause. Having said that, sub users do best when they have a desire to remain sober and look at subs as a tool leading to recovery.
February 4, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Joe
It sure beats quitting. That’s kinda hard so we won’t even consider it. Pretty soon they will be able to get clean needles and drugs right in prison like they do in other countries now )-; How screwed up we have become swallowing this whole ‘harm reduction crap.’
http://ow.ly/16u2X0
March 2, 2010 at 4:05 am
Jerry
I started on suboxone in 2003? It’s been quite a while.. My all knowing brilliant doctor convinced me that I would have to be on suboxone the rest of my life because I had done so much drugs in large doses that it, in a sense, broke my system where I will stay in withdrawl forever. I was started on 8mgs a day and have managed to lower my dose down to 2mgs a day. I now don’t think I’ll be on this stuff the rest of my life. It just takes a very long time to fully get off of heroine and other synthetic heroine type drugs. I personally think that drug addiction effects everyone differently depending on many different factors, how they were raised, the friends they choose, what if any degreee of mental problem they might have, etc.. I started using drugs because I had PTSD at an early age (12). I just recently found this out. None of the many doctors figured this out over the years.. I put 2 + 2 together from watching Intervention on A&E. I now no longer drink alcohol, relaps on opiates or smoke pot. I’m almost fully clean accept for the 2mgs of suboxone a day. But now that I’m basically clean the PTSD is coming back into play. Are there any treatments for PTSD ??? That don’t require popping a pill.
April 26, 2010 at 7:18 pm
dutch
I never could understand why addiction has been my struggle. evryone tells me that i am a bright young lady and can do so much with my life. I have managed to attend and graduate college, I have a job that I love, etc. I am however on 2 mg of suboxone. this week i attempted to go down to 1 mg & feel like dirt! perhaps mentally i am not ready. i will never give up on me & so i live to fight another day. i pray that someday i will win thw war of addiction. wow reading this seems sad but i am far from sad actually quite happy that im not on the street trying to cop illegal drugs…yeah!
April 26, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Bill
I wish you well with your recovery.
May 12, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Amy
I have just read all of your posts and there are a few things that i really need to add for you all to think about:
As an opiate addict myself I have noticed that yes those of us that are addicts have very similar traits among us, however, we as addicts need to be treated as individuals. Ever here that saying that an addict is an addict no matter how you look at it? this is true to a point but we all have our own story and we all react differently to different treatments. For example some opiate addicts brains CANT ever be clean because they have been damaged by the drug of choice…it can stop your brain from producing the chemicals needed to fight pain and withdrawel leaving us no option but to remain on suboxone or methadone for life. I am not sure of the medical termonology for this but its out there if you research it. I have also seen that it does depend on how we became an addict…in other words whether you had a physical problem that you were given opiates for and became addicted to them or if you were using them for recreation makes a difference in how you might react in recovery. I myself had physical problems for which i was prescribed oxycontin for 2 years. I started taking them about a year before it hit the news about how addicting it is. i spent the last year i was on it trying to get off it! i took the advice of a doctor and went on methadone which for me was one of my biggest mistakes. i was on it for 6 years until i heard about suboxone. the methadone made me feel stuck and useless. i was always groggy and felt like i was being poisoned. Now that i am on suboxone (have been on it for a year.) i can think clearly and no longer feel tied down like i did on methadone. Dont get me wrong, it is still a ball and chain so to speak, but i just keep in mind that its just a stepping stone to becoming opiate free. i think if we made this drug more cost effective, if addicts really want to quit abusing opiates, it can be the miracle they are waiting for. I have had people tell me they dont want to go on suboxone because they like the feeling of methadone which tells me that they are still looking to get high. i know i have been rambling on and i will stop now!I hope what i have said makes sense to you all!
May 12, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Amy
something i forgot to mention that i feel is very important in addition to suboxone treatment…I feel anyone entering suboxone treatment should do so keeping in mind that they are not going to be on it forever…it is a great stepping stone to recovery as well as meetings, counseling and open communication with all medical professionals involved. I myself to be honest do not attend meetings. I have a strong relationship with my prescribing doctor and attend individual counseling sessions once a week with a drug and alcohol abuse counselor and signed paperwork stating that they can discuss my addiciton with one another, as well as my primary care physician. This is working for me so far. It is very important to have a network of support! you cannot do this alone…any one who thinks so is dead wrong in my opinion. Ty for listening!
May 12, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Joe
Thanks for your comments Amy.
“I feel anyone entering suboxone treatment should do so keeping in mind that they are not going to be on it forever…”
“I myself to be honest do not attend meetings.”
I guess I would ask when you plan to quit everything and why not try (or retry) going to meetings? The 12Step program is what is proven to work the best for the most. Talk therapy with like minded people is, in my opinion, the most powerful tool in the toolbox [-;
You have a story to tell that will help others.
All the best, Joe
November 5, 2010 at 11:02 am
nathan Mizrahi
Does addiction to tobacco products mean a person is NOT in recovery??? Someone said that a person on suboxone is not in recovery?? So how is it that one can be addicted to tobacco, yet be considered “in recovery”, when someone taking ONLY suboxone is not??
November 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Bill Ford
Someone on suboxone is in recovery. I don’t know about tobacco, but following a responsible protocol to move from heroin addiction to suboxone to true abstinence is recovery in the eyes of many in this business.
December 12, 2010 at 5:04 pm
F.
I have been on Suboxone for five years. In that time I went from being a homeless criminal to getting a GED, than a full-time job, than graduating community college w/a 4.0; now I am attending Case Western, one of the best colleges in the nation, on a scholarship (all while still working full-time, mind you, and maintaining that 4.0). My family trusts me again, I have been promoted at work several times, and I am engaged. Am I still an addict? You can call me whatever you like, I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.
Suboxone has been a miracle worker in my life. My only aggravation is the ridiculous hoops I still have to leap through on a bi-weekly basis to obtain my prescription, even though I have great health insurance and money to spare. Whether purposeful or not, they make it difficult for recovering addicts to lead a normal life.
December 12, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Joe
F. Great job. I wish it went that well for others.
Merry Christmas, Joe
December 17, 2010 at 1:59 am
MD
12 step programs are not the answer. Instead of getting rid of your addiction, you become addicted to a cult. They should slogans at you rather than offer critical thinking. They say things like “Well, what’s so bad about believing in a Higher Power?” This higher power they may or may not say is a God.
The guy who founded it actually said to “soft sell” the 12 step program with that sort of language. One rehab I worked at allowed people to pick all sorts of things like “music” and “reading” as their higher power in an effort to get them in the door with 12 step programs. Well, surprise, those things don’t have any power over you that you don’t create in your own mind, so that goes to show you that anything but a supernatural all-powerful being like in the Abrahamic religions does not work under AA’s system. People who claim to be using a “higher power” that isn’t a deity are obviously stopping themselves from drinking under their own power. Music doesn’t stop you from drinking or doing drugs, you do. If you want to read more about the 12 step programs, there’s an interesting set of documents called the “Orange Papers” – you can easily google them.
The funny thing is that 12 step programs and residential rehabs have no science to back themselves up. In fact, one study of AA showed that people who went to AA had a slightly worse chance than spontaneous remission of addiction. That means AA HURT their chances of success. The only thing that does have science behind it, showing better results than placebo, is replacement therapy. But, people are so offended by the idea that an addict might have a slim chance of catching a buzz off of it that they rage and get all holier than thou about it. They even say “How dare the government subsidize these programs, we should just lock them up and throw away the key.” Methadone is one of the cheapest prescription drugs available. Keeping someone in a prison and providing them with free meals, board, and medical care is a lot more expensive. But on the off chance someone might be non-compliant and someone might get a warm fuzzy feeling from it is apparently enough to warrant lifetime incarceration.
Another thing that has been shown to work is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Even CBT performed by an average person who has simply undergone a brief training course has been shown to be effective. There are support groups like Smart Recovery that use techniques like that. Again, these have been shown to be effective, NOT 12 step programs.
We need to stop politicizing this issue and encourage things that actually allow someone to get their life back. People think AA is an easy answer, but it’s actually a religion designed to replace one’s entire social and spiritual life with people and dogma from the meetings. The drug war has caused most of these problems on its own. People might have been addicts before it started, but the social costs to addicts have become far worse since this started.
Incidentally, did you know most methadone that is diverted to the black market is sold by patients in treatment for pain management, not by people on maintenance treatment? Not to say that people in methadone maintenance don’t sell their drugs on occasion, but by far most of it is sold by people who take methadone for pain.
December 17, 2010 at 10:49 am
Bill Ford
Thanks for your 2 cents MD. Sounds like you do not like AA. I have no problem with that. That is the same exercise of choice that addicts can use to keep using or to quit. As far as science goes…what the heck is your point, science can barely account for it self. Information and hypothesis changes day by day… We can hardly figure out why replacement therapy works fantastic for some and horribly for others. Same with AA. It works for some and not for others. Why do you need science to tell you what simple statistics say. AA works and so do other solutions…but only for some. There is no question here. If one out of three can use it successfully, that is still success in the millions….and its free. Everything else costs the suffering addict very scarce dollars, including subs and methadone. If your on the dole, you can get methadone for maybe $50 a week in most places…I don’t know how many addicts can afford in house rehab or even good CBT, but its a small percentage. I wish our government would get on board with this arsenal of choices we have that work differently for different addicts and insure that an addict or drunk that wants recovery has it on demand. That certainly has to be cheaper than lost lives, ER, jail, and a wasted effort on the drug war….Oh, your point?, about worshipping “things” for a higher power, greatly underestimates the intelligence of the addict and your taking it out of context. I think, in AA we attempt to guide the addict and drunk away from relying on what has been killing them. Do you know what that is? I can understand an atheist stand point or even an agnostic, but you really need to keep the notion of a higher power in some kind of perspective. I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Think about it. BILL
December 17, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Joe
Dear MD,
There are over 144,000 meeting locations world wide with millions of people attending. Please help me understand how something that isn’t effective and has no science to back it up, can grow to such large numbers? How you feel about a higher power or God is irrelevant. Whether you like it or not the 12 Step program IS what works the best for the most. Good luck at Rational Recovery.
December 19, 2010 at 4:03 pm
susan lea
I’m amazed at the number of comments. Wow!
My experience in our local community seems to be a problem of ignorance. I’ve seen addicts receive suboxone at the methadone clinic and then they are just weaned off it when their program ends. It seems to take about 3 weeks before they’re back on heroin. General Practitioners don’t treat addiction. They can prescribe ant-depressants or anti-anxiety medications. But they won’t prescribe methadone or suboxone. So most heroin users go to a methadone clinic for help. I’m not sure there’s enough education in these clinics to understand long term care of an addict. Too many patients complete their counseling and treatment and relapse within months.
Common drugs sold on the street include suboxone and methadone. So you can either get high from these drugs or people are trying to get clean on their own because they can’t get help. Maybe a little of both.
I don’t understand why heroin addiction can’t be treated like any other mental illness. This way patients could receive help from the general medical community instead of having to seek help from a methadone clinic. I guess there are people in the medical community concerned about overdoses and non-compliance. And this creates concerns about complaints of mal-practice. But it’s way too hard for some people to get access to suboxone or methadone. It seems to be easier to get street drugs.
December 19, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Joe
My experience as a former heroin user with 33 years of sobriety is that people who will swallow their pride and go to lots of 12 Step meetings can and will quit. There is only one real solution and that is total abstinence. Too many addicts are ‘babied’ and treated like their case is special and THEY just can’t quit. Sad and also untrue ):
http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/14/alcoholics-anonymous-as-a-spiritual-experience/
January 8, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Joe
Suboxone, tired of wild assertions and anecdotal “evidence” about this highly addictive opiate called Suboxone?? I dare you to read this article form the Dec. issue of Addiction Professional.
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=1A0320B8B51A40359EA2EC0039BB9F4F
January 8, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Bill Ford
I think many of us know this. I have talked to a couple of long term users who are loyally staying put, so its difficult to be certain about what happens when they decide to come off it having never done it myself. The main point is still harm reduction. “When used in the short term, Suboxone is the best detox drug I have ever seen-it can immediately stabilize a patient’s life” Steven R. Scanlon MD, author of above article.
Like any drug, it can be a god send or the devil and yes, tough to get off of from what I hear. The option of course, is methadone …or better yet, just quit, like you say and tough it out. That’s the biggest question isn’t it. Why don’t they just quit.
I am happy to say my son has just quit heroin, cold turkey. 60 days sober now after 6 years of doing it all, including back on forth on subs, methadone, etc… God bless him. He never had the discipline to use subs or anything else properly. Now he is in good hands at the “Gooden Center” in Pasadena. http://www.goodencenter.org/
January 27, 2011 at 6:28 pm
kevin gulley
dont let anybody tell you that your using suboxin to get high , because you cant afford any other opiates. Bull crap! ive been on suboxin for almost three years. and quite actually, it saved my life..so what if i have to take a small piece everyday, isnt that what heart patients do every morning? so these people who blog in. have no idea of the epidemic facing young people these days. i mean heroin and or pills are ready available on the street everywhere.. so if you have to take suboxin to keep from hurting your loved ones,or breaking the law. bottom line suboxin works,period. so blog about something else,not what true addicts already know! AND YOU DONT GET HIGH FROM SUBOXIN! addicts who want to remain clean,take it till you feel your ready..get back to life….and ignore people with no knowledge about this miracle pill.. kevin
January 11, 2011 at 10:57 am
Joe
More on the opiate Suboxone
http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2011/maine-tops-nation-in.html
January 27, 2011 at 9:31 pm
Joe
Thanks for clearing that “SUBOXIN!” issue up for us Kevin…sounds like you have found a real friend.
August 1, 2011 at 1:09 am
Generic suboxone | Askdarla
[…] Roxane Labs Generic Suboxone Hits the Market « DadOnFireRoxane Labs Generic Suboxone Hits the Market. December 15, 2010 in ANNOUNCEMENTS , SUBOXONE & OPIOIDS. The blog response on this topic has been overwelming. … […]
August 11, 2011 at 8:28 am
Chris in Ypsi
All I know is after battling addiction to alcohol, cocaine, then opioids (the opioids were the ones that brought me to my knees) and failing to stay sober after several inpatient and outpatient treatments, Suboxone was introduced to me in 2006. I am now 48 and was an everything junkie from the age of 17(1980) until 44 (2006). I could not hold down a steady job, had several cars repossessed, was evicted or asked to leave my apartments several times, and couldn’t manage money except to make sure I had my fixes every day. I tried 12 steps, I was in a theraputic community, did a few stints in jail, and destroyed 2 long term relationships, (one I take most of the blame for, the other is questionable and I stopped looking for answers years ago.) After spending 30 days in 12 Oaks, Navarre, Florida, being placed on Suboxone there and following up with counseling for a year afterward I am living an addiction free life. I have held on to my jobs without getting fired and continue to seek ways to better myself. I left my old life behind and moved 5 states away. I am still on suboxone (actually subutex at this point, it’s generic and much less expensive) and have no plans to stop using it. I use it as prescribed, (2mg 4 x a day) I wake up every morning feeling better and better as each day goes by. My past has become a distant memory and my future looks very bright. I am not hiding from the landlord, I am not afraid to answer the phone, no bill collectors are calling asking for money, everything is paid on time, and I sleep soundly at night. I have a car that is paid for and no one can come and get it in the middle of the night. The only thing missing in my life is a companion/lover. With things going the way they are I am not looking for one, I expect one will come along when I least expect it. Yes I do have a dependence on Subutex, however I am in no way doing anything that would be considered addictive behavior. So to each his own in the addiction battle. I know what worked for me, is still working and will continue working. My biggest fear it the continual changes of rules and regulations regarding this miracle drug. It took alot of effort to find a doctor that was not interested in $$, but genuine about my well being and health. I am also an individual and what might be working for others may not work for me. There are alot of unknown factors involving addiction. I have no idea why I should feel guilty attending a 12 step meeting just because I am on subutex. If I was to show up there and announce the truth I would immediately be asked to leave. I am branded as actively using and intoxicated or high and not wanted there. I sat through enough of these to know this. I do not use this medicine to get high. It just worked for me and I have no Idea why. I will not attempt to fix anything that is not broken and right now I am not broken, as I was years ago. The total abstinance theory does not work for everyone and I am living breathing proof of that.
August 31, 2011 at 12:40 pm
David Turner
I am an addict. Always have been always will be. I have had some success at staying clean through NA and other types of support and it always amazes me when someone else who claims sobriety demonstrates such blatant arrogance as you do Joe. The name calling and mean spirited attack you chose to post is nothing more than a step toward relapse. We each follow our own path and too assume that your experiences should define every one elses is a monumental testament to your anger and arrogance. True sobriety, in my experience, is demonstrated by humble service not the personal and very angry sounding attacks you choose to post here. I hope you find peace soon because 33 years is a long time to carry the kind of anger you are demonstrating. I’ve been around the rooms almost as long as you and I have seen others just as angry. You may have very valid points about suboxone use but are you really so naive as to think you will reach anyone with the sarcasm and name calling? I do not intend to pursue any argument with you and I will not post anything else regarding this so take it for what it’s worth brother.
August 31, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Bill Ford
Always appreciate a civil and justified counter response to my own or other readers ( such as Joe’s) viewpoints. I respect both of your input and do not decry you for feeling this way. I assume we all support recovery and at least some justified harm reduction measures as it were, in lieu of the dangerous path of limitless drug abuse. There are many ways to define addiction. Millions of Americans may be firmly in the classification of being an addict and deal with it in any number of ways, from outright dangerous, to some kind of controlled harm reduction and maintenance. An even greater number, in the tens of millions of Americans, are in a grey area of addiction (in my assessment) known as dependence, whereby, the use of the drug of choice is either medically administered and controlled or self administered and controlled. This includes the categories of pain and mood altering prescription opiates and stimulants, anti-depressants and many other drugs that fall into a long term dependence for a wide variety of medical reasons. My choice of recovery for the category of non-medical drug addiction or dependence is abstinence, but I know some can not do this. I know no more than that. AA and NA both recognize this. I believe, those who follow the tenants of AA and NA, accept that. 99% of those who follow that path of abstinence based recovery, do not have the expertise to take this conclusion any further. In my opinion, this is best left in the hands of said affected individuals, related professionals, and of course personal and logical consequence of action. Not sure where else it can go. Maybe Joe can enlighten. I do also believe, Human beings have significant power of choice available if properly accessed within their own mental constitution. 99% of us, simply have that power. That is where professional help comes into play. Notice, I always leave room for the 1% which I admit is still arbitrary. Thank you for your input.
December 1, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Lisa
David thank you for your response to Joe. You are right Joe has alot of anger inside. His responses to the people on this blog have been rude for the most part.
Joe I’m 30 years clean and sober and never attended a single meeting AA/NA is not for EVERYONE. I saw a behavioral therapist for 5 years. I realize that AA has helped millions of people but that doesn’t mean it’s the only form of treatment. Suboxone has turned people’s lives around for the better and isn’t that the point? They live their life instead of wondering where the next drink/drug is going to come from. I work with people everyday who choose Suboxone instead of drugs these people are now productive member’s of society. They are happy and well adjusted and have gone on to do good things with their lives who are you to judge that. I’m glad the 12 steps worked for you and countless other’s and I think AA is a good thing. Please keep in mind that it’s not the only thing. You shouldn’t judge other people’s choice’s as I didn’t see people here insult you because you went to AA and did the steps.I respect a person’s choice in regards to recovery and I think for any addict to decide to get well no matter how they chose to do it is a good thing.
Other people’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality.
September 29, 2011 at 1:36 am
Suboxone: Switching from one drug to another. | Changing Lives Foundation Blog
[…] all the comments below. To follow the original discussion, click here on “Dad on Fire” […]
http://www.drug-addiction-help-now.org/blog/2009/11/switching-from-one-drug-to-another/
December 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Joshua P Brown
Some might think its a miracle drug but what happens if your insurance does not cover it, it is very expensive even taking 1 a day will cost you about 300 dollars, and not to mention the fact that the withdraw is way worse and longer than any withdraw from heroin. I do agree to a point that it does help but what I don’t agree with is staying on it long term I think you should take it for a few days to get off the heroin and be done, If you talk it long term you will wish you were coming off the heroin still.
December 14, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Tina
I was on Loricet,Soma,Xanax & any other opiate I could get from a Dr. or buy on the street. I am 5″8″ tall.I was on them 12 years..I was in 3 beautiful RE-HABS..At the end of my addictive behavior my daughter took me to a living breathing Dr. that had what few have..A BRAIN & a BRAIN. I weighed 75 lbs. I was dying..I had done EVERY drug except intravenous (only cause I fear needles)..My Dr. prescribed me 6- 8.2 SUBOXONE tablets & 6 1mg Kolonipin. I had to be in full withdrall before taking any. Next AM I woke up & put this (I THOUGHT..silly) pill under my tongue & took 1 Kolonipin..In 20 Min. I started crying..my daughter asked if she should call the Dr..I said “NO”..I am finally FREE..Free of the drugs the life-style & hurting my entire family..FREE of going to “WANNA BE” Script writing DRS. Drs. WANT you hooked..You are NOT a patient..You are a customer affording them a consious free RICH Life-style. Then there are the Street pushers..KILLING people & wrecking familes..How do they sleep at night..I guess they don’t..They are out selling to your’s & my children..I am 61yrs. old. I lost 12 yrs of my life..I almost lost my husband & 5 children. This Opiate addiction is an epidemic of massive proportions. Our Fla. GOV. (SCOTT) just voted down a system to be put in place that would stop this in Fla. If you would have gone to get an RX you give your SS# & the computers would have a history of ANY OTHER Pharmacies you use. It would have halted the “DOCTOR SHOPPING”..made me wonder if Rush has our Gov. in his pocket or what our Gov. is shopping for. WHY woulsn’t ANYONE NOT WANT A SYSTEM like this in Place..the Drug pushers are just about All ob ss disablity so they see several Drs. & several pharmacies.Pharmacies need to report these Heavy script writing “KILLERS”..7 I am not speaking of the terminally ill or injured. The REAl injuries. not the stories like the stupid ones I told the stupid DRS.
December 14, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Bill Ford
God Bless you for saying it. Your honesty is appreciated. I hope others in your shoes can succeed.
February 15, 2012 at 8:17 pm
Adam
First of all going from heroin to methadone is like “I don’t want to bear the withdrwwls” now me I’m going from methadone to suboxone. It’s the only thing that has worked. It doesn’t jack you up, it heals your frontal lobe over time, makes you have a appettite and it’s cheap with prescription. I’ve gained weight and everybody tells what a difference it’s made. On methadone you still are damaged and may look kinda shitty.
August 12, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Nathan Mizrahi
we are all different and require different approaches to the problem of addiction.. What works for one, may not work for another. I am on a maintenance dose of subtext and trying real hard to bring down my dose to a minimum.. I know I have used Subutex in the past as an addict choses to use their drug of choice.. For me, Subutex has saved my life.. An Opiate addict knows another Opiate addict in a way no other can.. Emptiness, G-dlessness, and all the unique properties that Opiate addicts share can only be understood by another that shares this addiction.. We are not special.. All addictions have their own unique properties.. Opiate addicts share the G-dless feelings of non existence unique to the drug.. That I rely on Subutex to allow me a life is my choice.. Anyone who may consider me a failure has a problem they choose to own.. What I do to deal with my addiction is between me and the G-D of my understanding… Please, anyone who choses to use Subutex to deal with their addiction I beg you NOT to buy into what someone else ‘s opinion is.. You are doing great.. You have found a way to deal with this unique addiction.. Be happy there is a way to deal with this terrible disease.. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE WHO JUDGES YOUR DECISION… Nathan
August 13, 2012 at 2:25 am
Eric
Nathan I’m right there with you bro. Well said. The difference between an opiate addicted life and a subutex maintained life is FREEDOM. Today (after 6 months of sobriety) I have the God given right to live my life however I want. I have a job, a car, a fine woman, a guitar, a computer, and most importantly my family and friends back. When I was on the opiates for 13 years or so, I only knew how to live as a slave to my addiction. I lost EVERYTHING. I plan to stay on subutex for as long as it takes to get my head adjusted to reality again. If that takes 50 years then so be it. Just to have the ability to live without the 4 hour countdown every single day is a blessing. To the subutex haters out there: Ever time you hate on subutex, take a look at your own white knuckles and maybe re-think why it means so much to you to spend so much time knocking someone else’s lifestyle. If you can do it cold turkey, God bless you, but I sure as hell don’t want to be around to watch. Great post Nathan.
-If you’re feeling down throw on some Ripple by the Grateful Dead…works every time. -Eric
October 10, 2012 at 3:22 pm
justin
Joe I’m an addict and suboxone literally saved my life.I may be on a pill for along time but u know what Joe? Every morning I wake up, every day I get to hug my son and drop him off at school so to me what u feel is a joke I feel is miraculous.
October 10, 2012 at 4:30 pm
C Trotter
You go Joe, is it the perfect solution,no it’s not. It does give people back their lives however. I dont see my formerly addicted relative scrambling on the street trying to score a Suboxone…just sayin
October 10, 2012 at 4:31 pm
C Trotter
I meant you go Justin…
October 22, 2012 at 6:31 am
cornersss
if Medicaid or Health insurance paid for heroin we wouldn’t need suboxone. Its the big reason suboxone works, most of the time someone else is paying the lion share of a $575 a month prescription. I wasn’t so lucky, most of the time it came out of pocket.
Most of the time the reason people rob and steal is because they ran out of drugs a few days ago and are going through really painful withdrawals. Its why you don’t see a lot of people on suboxone holding up stores, they have enough meds. Suboxone surely changed my life, but i find myself still on it after 8 years and just when i thought a generic was coming out the maker of Suboxone pulled a fast one in the name of safety and have made it so we all must now buy their patented protected suboxone strips instead.
How screwed up is this world where drug companies sell us the drugs that get us addicted, then sell us another drug that keeps us addicted forever and is even more expensive
October 22, 2012 at 6:35 am
cornersss
Id like to add that suboxone has a chemical in it that can cause you to go into withdrawls if you take other opiates. Which is cool and all till you remember what is aid earlier that its still another opiate.
October 22, 2012 at 6:36 am
cornersss
suboxone is 50 times as strong as Morphine,which is why coming off it is surprisingly harder to most sold on Suboxone
March 9, 2015 at 7:29 am
Patty
I’m so discussed and your rotten when you joe or who ever man says people are getting legal high.Where has your head been man hello alcohol.subutex has taken my memory my vocabulary my teeth my looks my class,and I’m not an addic,dig it,I paid 500.00 to get on a quote new pain drug that didn’t make me fell all funky ,it does now . Read my novel ,by patty